Arla: Unveiling Dairy’s Digital Future

Arla: Unveiling Dairy’s Digital Future

Arla logo

2021-02-16

With increasing demand for transparency on the welfare of the animals that produce our milk, Arla has developed two technology products to drive transparency in the dairy value chain and track animal welfare using blockchain and AI.

In our first podcast of 2021, we’re joined by Tomi Sirén who is the Head of Digital and Technological Innovation at Arla. Their powerful vision is to create the most transparent value chain in food.

Tomi talks about the two technology products that Arla has developed: Arla Milkchain which tracks the journey of milk through the supply chain using blockchain technology, and Arla Iris, an AI-powered animal welfare app.

Watch the video podcast on Youtube, or listen on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

Key learnings from Arla

  1. Transparency and Traceability in Dairy Production
    Arla’s Milk Chain initiative has emerged as a trailblazer in promoting traceability from farm to table. As Tomi Sirén narrated, the journey began three years ago with the aim of creating a transparent dairy production chain. The milestone achievement came with the launch of the world’s first cheese traceable through Milk Chain. This is a giant leap towards ensuring that consumers have complete visibility into the cheese production process.

    Tomi emphasized the importance of long-term commitment to make such a trailblazing initiative successful, stating, “…we are adding new farms, new products…launching the world’s first cheese that is traceable through milk chain, and making the cheese production process accessible and transparent for consumers first in the world.”
  2. Overcoming Dairy Industry Challenges with Blockchain
    Dairy products being perishable require meticulous handling and precise storage conditions. The conversation highlighted the indispensable role of blockchain in ensuring product quality. Ben Sheppard outlined the need for an immutable ledger to ensure that the data regarding the quality and handling of dairy products remains unadulterated, stating, “…you really do need that immutable ledger…to make sure that the data is not inadvertently being tampered with…”
  3. Ensuring Verification and Data Accuracy:
    The accuracy of data before it enters the blockchain is a pivotal aspect of ensuring traceability and transparency. Tomi explained their multipronged approach involving smart contracts and different data collection points, some automated through APIs and others requiring manual input initially. He acknowledged the challenges but reaffirmed the progress made, saying, “…we’ve gained efficiencies, and the verification is according to standards, but it’s still difficult to say.”
  4. Promoting Animal Welfare and Building Consumer Trust
    Arla Iris stands as a testament to Arla’s dedication towards animal welfare. Through smart devices and cameras on the farms, Arla Iris monitors and analyzes various data points concerning animal welfare, feeding this data into the Milk Chain. Tomi highlighted the consumer interest in animal welfare and how technology complements human efforts in ensuring animal welfare, stating, “…how we can use technology to complement…whether it’s surveillance, whether it is how we analyze the data…”
  5. Enhanced Consumer Engagement Through Augmented Reality
    Although not yet integrated, augmented reality (AR) is on the horizon for Arla. Tomi shared insights on how AR could provide an immersive experience for consumers, making the journey of dairy products from farm to table more engaging and transparent. He noted, “…not augmented reality yet in terms of Arla Milk Chain but stay tuned.”
  6. Cross-market Expansion and Collaborative Endeavors
    The broader vision of Milk Chain encompasses its expansion across different markets and engaging in substantial collaborations with various stakeholders. Tomi expressed the aspiration towards driving national interest by melding data into larger platforms through collaborations, stating, “…we are getting ready to work with a bigger consultant, to bigger group of partners and company, different companies across sectors to drive these things forward.”
  7. Embracing Future Technological Innovations
    Arla is poised at the cusp of technological innovations that drive sustainability in dairy production. Tomi underscored the company’s readiness in embracing new technologies and expanding its data capabilities to larger platforms for driving national interest, hinting at a promising future filled with innovative solutions for the dairy industry.

The future of the Arla project, as unfolded in the podcast, beams with promising advancements in ensuring transparency, sustainability, and enhanced consumer engagement in the dairy industry. With the Arla Milk Chain initiative already setting a benchmark by launching the world’s first traceable cheese, the trajectory is set towards expanding this transparency to more products, farms, and dairies.

The envisaged integration of augmented reality promises a more immersive consumer experience, further bridging the gap between the farm and the table. The cross-market expansion, coupled with collaborative endeavors with various stakeholders, aims not only to drive national interest but also to set a precedent for global dairy industry standards. Through continuous technological innovation and a steadfast commitment to animal welfare, Arla is marching towards a future where every consumer enjoys a clear view of the journey their dairy products have traversed, instilling a deeper level of trust and satisfaction.

Transcript

Ben Sheppard 00:29
Welcome, everyone to another episode of the TX – Tomorrow Explored podcast show. Really happy to be back. It’s the first one of 2021 we had a little break, as you’ve all probably noticed just before the Christmas period, so it’s great to be back on the show. I’m probably looking a bit heavier, for those of you that are watching the video, I had a good Christmas, Tomi, I’m guessing you might have put a few kilograms on as well we can get on to our 2021 fitness plans in a moment. So, new things that happen on the pod, I’m going to be hosting a series of pods that focused on a number of things around engineering data economies to do with data blockchain interesting projects in that space. My co-host who’s not here today, but we’ll be doing some future pods Jarno Marttila is going to be doing a series of pods on traceability track and trace and in the use of blockchain. So, today I’m super excited because we’ve got Tomi Sirén on who’s head of technology and innovation at Arla Foods. I’m going to be covering a very interesting part on traceability today, and some of the things that Arla Foods has been doing with Blockchain. So, Tomi, welcome to the show. How are you? Did you put some weight on over the Christmas spirit like I do, because I’m feeling pretty heavy if I’m being honest?

Tomi Sirén 01:55
Thanks, Ben. Good to be here and that’s something that’s really easy to relate and I think on top of putting some extra kilos my hair caught like 30 centimeters longer as well. So, I’m growling from every base.

Ben Sheppard 02:12
I didn’t know that actually because the prep call before must have been in November now. I’m sure Tomi had a different haircut now. Mine hasn’t changed that much. It’s pretty static.

Tomi Sirén 02:24
Black that’s a classic.

Ben Sheppard 02:29
So, could we start with you, just tell us a bit about yourself and how you eventually got into the dairy industry in the world of tech?

Tomi Sirén 02:39
Sure. My background is in the consulting agency side, I’m an ex-Dents strategist. Four years ago, we were pitching Arla in Europe and then won the beach then translate it into a eight client side to Arla. I’ve always been fascinated by the sort of big corporations and how they can transform because like four or five years ago, I had a sort of outside perspective to Arla and it was really interesting to see that there’s a clear transformation going on. We are in the commodity business; we sell low margin products on a big scale. We will be seeing some sort of silent news that there’s going to be a shift in the industry. What I was really interested in was to be invited off that transformation and sift, especially from low margin products to a higher margin service and seeing that transformation where digitalization in the first phase played only role of digital marketing. Let’s say a company had a Facebook page. So, ticking the box, we are thriving, digitalization how do we can actually take that power of digitalization and drive that across business function, across organizations and see how we can gain value from that. I wanted to see that transformation from inside out not outside in. That was one of the big driving forces for me to go to Arla.

Ben Sheppard 04:40
I mean with all the lock downs that the world has been going through over the last year or so. That digital marketing is even more important now because people are sat in front of their computers probably more than ever. So, being present on social media being present, you know through things like podcasts to be able to get your message out about your product, but also having good messages because you know, anyone can do a podcast show. Anyone can put a video on LinkedIn, anyone can, you know, become an influencer, actually on these social media platforms? So, it’s one thing, putting content out is another thing, putting quality content out. I guess that’s an area that you’re really interested in honor as well, like, what is quality content that you can be putting out that really speaks to your consumers that really differentiates you as a product?

Tomi Sirén 05:35
Yeah, quality and relevance, up to date. I think quality, relevance, and quantity. That’s an equation for success. That’s something that we were working on a day to day basis to get better, but just talking about the shift a bit more, just I need to emphasize that it’s been an interesting journey. When I turned to Arla, my role was heavily focused on digital marketing. I was head of digital, but now I’m head of digital and technological innovation, which means that I’ve seen devilish evolution that digitalization starts to play a bigger role in the organization, and we have acknowledged that services and technology has a business trip driven impact to us and to our consumers. That’s an interesting journey to see, actually.

Ben Sheppard 06:31
We’ve been working a lot in the fishery sector, doing track and trace of seafood products from the Philippines into Europe and into the US. And, and one thing that came up that I found really interesting is, and I know we’ll come on to it later with your technology products but is that consumers really want to know the journey of their products. So, in our case, on the fisheries project they’re really interested in so where did this yellowfin tuna come from? Where’s this product come from? Where’s it been before, it’s got to me? How did it eventually get to my play? That whole journey, and I think there’s more and more consumers that are really interested in that origin story of where this sort of product came from, what it is they’re eating, and just whole awareness around that space is growing on different products?

Tomi Sirén 07:21
Yeah, that’s really true and that’s super interesting case, by the way, the case you were referring that you guys working on. Really, kudos to that and I’m a big believer, [Inaudible 07:35], traceability and transparency being really a sub driver for sustainability. I think it’s just emerging, it’s still not that we’ve seen pilots and really good initiatives across sectors, but I think it hasn’t been hit to the mainstream, as hard as I would have hoped. I think within one to two years we are going to be seeing and talking a lot more about that. I think COVID-19 has a role in that, but ultimately, I think it comes to the really simple foundations and questions about people want to know where the food comes from, actually, in Finland, 67% of Finns would like to know where their food comes from, and who has been actually working within the value chain making that food, it’s simple as that. I think when we go across borders, to actually, let’s say to China, and so forth, where people fundamentally don’t trust the manufacturers as much as they do in the Nordics, plays even bigger role when it comes to food safety and so forth. So, it’s a really super interesting topic. I think it is the future.

Ben Sheppard 09:00
Yeah. I don’t think I’ve seen it yet, but do you expect at some point to have, like, televisions and supermarkets with videos up showing like the origin story of where some of these different products come from? I mean, in the seafood sector, I’ve been out on the vessels with the fisherfolk. I’ve been out to see; I’ve seen how they pull the fish in. I’ve seen the process it’s come through, for some that might actually be a little bit off putting it could turn them vegan actually thinking about it, but for others, I think it’s really interesting for them to see where those products come from. So, do you anticipate that there’ll be more of that sort of visual stimuli in supermarkets in the future?

Tomi Sirén 09:41
Definitely. I believe there’s going to be a lot of traceability and transparency product to consumers because now it’s really difficult to access the data as a consumers to get to know where did the food comes from, if there’s different ingredients, where do they come from who’s been in the value chain, has everything gone in according to the standards, so to speak and it’s difficult to access the data, but I believe every year it gets easier for the companies as well to pull out the data because there’s a clear consumer demand behind it. Then I’m really hoping that in midterm, it’s going to be possible, whether it’s supermarket or restaurants, you’ll be able to see the value chain where the food comes from, easily from the counter from the menu, if you’d like to know more, there’s easy access to that data that value chain, I’m a big believer that there’s a responsibility, and a sort of a design challenge for the consumers and restaurants. How to make that data interesting and visible easily. It shouldn’t be in 50 clicks away somewhere, back end of a whatever.

Ben Sheppard 11:13
One thing that I’m discussing quite frequently now with friends in the UK is about sort of local community support projects and sort of with the closing of gyms because of COVID and you know, a lot of gyms closed entirely and not just being suspended. There’s more and more drivers in the local communities to try and support one another. So, my friend, Jeremy has been giving out equipment to people and saying, you know, you can use this you can rent it from us. You know, to try and pull them back once this thing opens back up. He’s now talking to our local chef in the area who’s working with him to try and come up with a good nutrition plan and sort of come up with something that would be great for the local community while in these lockdowns. I’m curious to see if this sort of information we get about product journeys. If the consumer demand also wants to understand, did this product come from my local community area? Because rather than kind of a words out if it did, maybe I’m going to be more motivated to buy that product? Because I really want to help my local community, particularly in difficult periods like this. Do you think that’s a unique selling point if you’re able to sort of promote that message as well?

Tomi Sirén 12:32
Definitely, because it’s people who are willing to pay for this. There needs to be a clear value much. They’re paying, let’s say, a premium price for supporting a course. So, definitely. I am a big believer of that as well.

Ben Sheppard 12:51
Yeah. So, let’s move on to your tech projects because I was a bit of a trailblazer. When it comes to blockchain, you know, there are examples of track and trace blockchain projects popping up all over the world, but you guys are actually one of the first ones to do it. There’s others out there with like mask, shipping that did the container blockchain project with IBM, but in dairy farming, I think you’re probably one of the first if not the first in the world to do it. So, you have two technology products that we’re going to talk about today. The first one is the Arla milk chain, which is the journey of milk throughout its value chain. Could you just tell us a little bit about that project? Because I find it fascinating and I’m a big fan of cow milk. I have not been converted to the other products that are out there. So, I am still with the cows.

Tomi Sirén 13:45
Yeah, that’s good to hear. So, we started the project, actually, three years ago, already. We set ourselves a vision that we want to create the most transparent value chain in dairy while actually input to either evaluate or to put the objective in a bit higher context. Arla Milk Chan is actually our platform to drive transparency. The other aspect of this, that we’re talking about maybe a bit later, is the Arla [Inaudible 14:29], is application towards animal welfare. That works as an external or as an application in part of the milk chain platform to support overall transparency. We just set a really long-term target for us. Let’s see, how do we can build the most transparent value chain, in dairy or in food at scale, because that’s something, then we got our management team buying into it. It’s a long-term commitment. It’s not something that we are going to be ready this year, next year in two years, but it’s something that we are going to be relentlessly working on for the next five to 10 years, until build there. So, because it’s really difficult if you think about traceability, transparency, and everything, especially in our case, we’re talking about liquids, so, it’s not an easy task. So, when I was looking for benchmarks worldwide, in 2018, everything was related to products, physical products, that are relatively somewhat easy to trace. So, I was a bit jealous about their benchmarks because I knew that our task, fundamentally, is a bit more challenging, because there was no chance that we could actually invest in the logistical infrastructure in the first phase. So, we were just trying to make proof of concept, could this work? Is there a consumer demand behind? Can we commercialize it, and then start building and scaling up year by year and that’s a journey that we’ve been. Now in almost three years, and I’m happy to say that the milk chain is getting bigger, we are adding new farms, new products, we are actually I think when this comes out, we launched the world’s first cheese that is trace could be that is traceable through milk chain, and we are making the cheese production process accessible and transparent. For the consumers first in the world. That’s something that I’m really proud of and it couldn’t have happened, it couldn’t have be seen, if we had put this long term commitment to us. Put it out there in the market and say, this is gonna work, what we are going to do? Please hold us accountable if we stop next year because it’s not going to be ready.

Ben Sheppard 17:23
Yeah, and milks quite a form of butter was a fragile product, isn’t it, you know, you have to store it carefully. During transportation, it has to be kept within certain temperature limits, need to be careful, it doesn’t get contaminated. If it’s full cream, semi cream, or completely without, you know, you need to make sure that those are sort of contained separately so that you’re not mixing them in any way. So, yeah, I think a blockchain is a very useful tool in that because you really do need that immutable ledger in there to make sure that the data is not inadvertently being tampered with, you know, it’s being verified before it gets on the chain and then you can trust that actually, this is accurate, and it has been looked after. You know, the milk has not gone off or it’s not been contaminated. So, similar case with the yellowfin tunas that we were working with, you know, as that’s moving through the value chain, you’ve got your sushi grade tuna that you need to store it, you know, minus 40 degrees or colder, basically. So, you’ve really got to be sure that it stayed at that temperature, because if it starts dropping below that, potentially the grade of that tuna starts reduced, and so does the value of it. So, again, there are very interesting similarities there and why a blockchain is important for. Not only very high value products that we see with diamonds and things like that, but also very fragile products that have a number of parameters that could easily affect them, and I think that’s the other sort of use case where a blockchain becomes very useful. I’m curious, so one thing about blockchain that often comes up is it doesn’t help with the quality of data. You know, if you put garbage in a blockchain, you get garbage coming out the other end, so doesn’t help with that. It keeps the data exactly as it is you can’t tamper with it once it’s gone in the blockchain. So, how did you deal with the verification element of the data before you put it on the blockchain to make sure that the data is accurate that’s going in there? Did you have QR code tagging and that sort of system or how did you deal with that?

Tomi Sirén 19:41
Yeah, that’s a good question, that’s something that we are really learning. Still, fundamentally smart contracts is that we use, and we have different times, different types of data points, something that comes automatically from the systems through API’s. Something is that we needed to actually build a manual interface in the first place to see what kind of different touch points we can actually have. It’s according to our quality standards. In terms of what is their standards of milk production within the context of Arla, but that’s a good one. Yeah, to answer your question, it’s not that easy. Yeah, it’s not that easy because, we are still in the face that we explore how we can drive it with more efficiently and how do we then evaluate, how much efficiencies does it bring, internally as well and to make sure that it’s verified? Still, we’ve conclude that, we’ve gained efficiencies, and the verification is according to standards, but it’s still difficult to say.

Ben Sheppard 21:16
For me, what I see in these projects is it’s about narrowing the margin for error. So, we may never get rid of it entirely and probably that’s the wrong expectation, but it’s narrowing that opportunity for error and that’s what we looked at in our sort of Tracy project, how can we reduce the number of variables that can go wrong? Which parts can we automate? Which parts can we have census directly streaming data into the blockchain, that you guys and sort of narrow that margin forever error so that we can be more confident in the quality of the end product? I think that’s really, if that message gets articulated to consumers that we are doing our utmost to reduce that error for margin to deliver you a higher quality products that can be you know, trusted more than others, because we’ve put the effort into getting better information around that chain of custody, then I think that’s the right direction that all these things can move towards, isn’t it?

Tomi Sirén 22:20
Yeah, definitely, and that our starting point was our quality program, everything we did was based on the quality but what is the Arla standards in this, and then first place, let’s try different inputs, and see what we can automate and how we can bring added value promised or value proposition for the farmers, for the dairy, for the logistics, so it could be as automatic as possible. As we go forward, we tried to increase the automation, and use as much IOT as possible and add investments throughout the value chain. So, it increases the efficiency, but keeps the verification standard to meet our Arla standards, which is by default, quite high, which makes it or put some pressure to us in terms of validation.

Ben Sheppard 23:29
Yeah. Cool. Okay, well, let’s move on to your AI project. I watched a lovely video this morning about this project and there was a little girl in there that was commenting and saying it’s important to her that the cows are happy. So, it is, you know, you these animals that are producing food that we can consume, we want their journey in life to be as happy as possible as well. I think this is a really interesting project that you’ve created in, Arla Iris. So, could you tell us a bit about that? How does it work? Why did you even create this? What was the driver for this?

Tomi Sirén 24:12
Yeah, that’s a good question and just to setting the scene, Arla milk 10 is the platform for value chain transparency, and then when we laid the foundation with Arla milk chain, then we asked the consumers, throughout the value chain, what is the most important thing for you? Actually, 74% of the Finns say that they are really interested in animal welfare, especially when it comes to animal-based products. So, whatever we are doing this, there needs to be clear consumer demand behind it, otherwise, it doesn’t make sense. So, then animal welfare, that was the context that we said OKAY, how we can make it more transparent as well how we can analyze it better how we can ease up the good work that the farm is already doing, because we are not saying that we use technology to replace the human or the human aspect of animal welfare. Not at all, but we are saying that how we can use technology to complement incrementally make it better, whether it’s surveillance, whether it is how we analyze the data, and how we get the data as well. So, that’s why we created Arla Iris that monitors and analyzes animal welfare within the farms and actually then feeds that data into Arla milk chain, and therefore makes the data visible. So, we get to use smart, smart devices, smart cameras on the farm, we have, I think it was eight data points, touch points that we analyze, and that these data points make up or that sums up as sort of our animal welfare index, then that we then portrayed, or we make visible to consumers.

Ben Sheppard 26:22
Yeah, I mean, in the video that, I watched the takeaway from me was that actually having this technology in place probably helps build a stronger relationship between the farmers and their animals, because then they’ve got better data, you know, on the sort of journey of those cows going through the dairy sort of process. So, some great stats that are on there was, you know, if they got a comfortable place to sleep, and rest, how many of the cows are voluntarily coming for milking? I mean, I think that’s lovely, you know, they’re not even being forced, they’re voluntarily walking in there, and you have a KPI on that. I mean, that’s great. So, this was their choice. So, they want to be milked, there’s obviously a need for that. So, I think what I took from it is this data probably helps to build a better relationship between the farm and the animals there and the farmers and, also, then the subsequent actors that are involved in that value chain as well to the end consumer and you know, the little girl that’s in your video, she can see that, you know, by drinking this milk it’s is not hurting any animal, it’s not bringing any distress to any animal. In fact, this cow voluntarily went for milking, and you’re eating that milk in your cereal and that’s fine, because, you know, no one was harmed in the process of this thing. I think that’s particularly the younger generation who are a bit more cognizant of these things than perhaps you and I were growing up, you know, it’s important for them to be able to see this and understand that as well.

Tomi Sirén 28:02
Exactly, and this is whether it’s Arla milk chain, whether it’s Arla Iris, this is our walk to talk, because for marketers, at the end of the day, I’m ICD in a commercial section of Arla Finland and we are marketers, but I’m really a big believer as well walk the talk, whatever we claim, we need to walk the dog. This is the way to make everything transparent and say, hey, it’s not just what we’re saying. Actually, it makes sense. This is the proof and I think, what we’ve seen from the studies it’s really create increases trust, trust to brand, trust to our products, and it’s not that you need to go and see how was the welfare of the animals every time you will tweak our products, but once you’ve seen it builds trust and every time you consume our products, you have a feeling and perception. That is everything is okay. It’s sort of a quality stamp to our products and to our brand, everything is okay. Yeah, that is the standard.

Ben Sheppard 29:21
So, people use the Arla Iris app. It’s got this augmented reality feature in there. So, if they go into the app, they can literally see a farm they can see the cows in the farm, they can see the process they’re going through they can get as real as it gets feeling of this without actually going to the farm. Is that right?

Tomi Sirén 29:43
Actually, augmented reality not yet. In our different products, we have augmented reality straight pack. That’s in the context of circular economy recycling buddies, by the way, check it out but that’s something that we are really working towards now, because we will be working with augmented reality desolate also will now be working with augmented reality for four years now. There is a clear connection and synergy between what we do now here to use augmented reality as an interface as a medium to make the experience more immerse and interesting and sort of our storytelling 2.0, as it should be. So, not augmented reality yet in terms of Arla Milk Chain but stay tuned.

Ben Sheppard 30:32
Yeah, now, I can imagine that’d be huge demand for that, particularly at the moment when, you know, over the Christmas period, I really wanted to take my son to some museums, we wanted to go to the tram Museum and the Aviation Museum, you couldn’t go to any of these because of the lockdown. So, in the absence of that, if you’ve got these sorts of apps that can almost take you to the place and you can feel like you’re there and get a sense for it. Well, I think that’s fascinating for not just for children, but for adults as well, because yeah, we can’t get to these places physically. So, yeah, I look forward to seeing that come out. Obviously, you’re a commercial business, but what else? Exciting things if you’ve got on the horizon at Arla Foods that you’re allowed to share, if anything?

Tomi Sirén 31:17
That’s a good, that’s an interesting question, as always. My focus, I’m heading down technological innovation in Finland, but where I really see the strength of Arla, of driving sustainability, driving this whole traceability and transparency market forward is that when we actually get these things, to travel across markets, to travel countries, where it’s more demand where it’s more volume, that is just simply bigger. So, what we are now working on to get these innovations to travel across markets, because I really see huge potential this in China, for example, and maybe had with a different twist, but I think at the end of the day, I would feel really good about the fact that whatever we’ve done in Finland, could travel through our group to China and then save lives. I think that would be fabulous. That’s something we are now working on and of course, like I said, we are expanding the Milk Chain, more products, more farms, more dairies and then of course, when I see that when I look at the whole trend of transparency, and data being a currency, and how Finland as a nation could actually make this a sort of a competitive edge in terms of exporting our products. So, we are getting ready to work with a bigger consultant, to bigger group of partners and company, different companies across sectors to drive these things forward. I think we are building the capabilities to attach or to sort of bring our data to a bigger platform that drives national interest as well. So, that’s the end, the bigger ambition here that we are working towards. I think with the actions we’ve taken for the past years; we’ve started, we are in a really good place to be in this kind of ecosystem.

Ben Sheppard 33:42
Yeah, these data driven business models are absolutely fascinating and you can see it more and more out dates played a key role in developing businesses and breaking down the geographical barriers to allow for these cross-border sort of technology and solutions. So, yeah, I’ll be watching Arla closely. Sounds like you’ve got some exciting stuff going on there. Tomi, it’s been great having you on the podcast show. I hope you’ve enjoyed coming on. I hope you can come on again in the future, as well, and tell us about future developments. So, yeah, great to have you here today. Thank you.

Tomi Sirén 34:20
Thank you. It’s been great and if possible, let’s put links to the videos that we refer to.

Ben Sheppard 34:27
Absolutely.

Tomi Sirén 34:28
Yeah. Perfect. I think it’s been an absolute joy, but I’ll be working closely on the project that you guys are working, you’re pushing the market forward. It’s a real pleasure to talk with like-minded people like yourself.

34:50
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